Hylas Yacht Owners Association Forum

Open Discussion => Hylas Discussion => Topic started by: NordicSunII on July 16, 2021, 04:43:08 PM

Title: Hard to fall off in heavy wind
Post by: NordicSunII on July 16, 2021, 04:43:08 PM
I was having a hard time falling off to go downwind, when it was blowing 30+ the other day.   Why?  I have a Hylas 44.  I had up only a 130 roller furler jib with a foam luff, that was rolled in to the second reef mark on the foot, no main.  when I was sailing up wind with that set up it was perfectly balanced being 20 to 30 degrees off the wind.  But when I tried to fall off to go downwind more than 90 degrees off the wind, I had to fight with the wheel just to turn down wind.  I'm a strong guy and it took a lot of work on the wheel to make it go downwind.  What I am trying to figure out are these boats always hard to fall off in big breeze?  Or was it my sail selection?  Would the main, with a deep double reef had made it better?  Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: Hard to fall off in heavy wind
Post by: joel on July 16, 2021, 05:45:04 PM
Just a WAG, but you were over-trimmed.  (Not sure how you were sailing 20-30 degrees off the wind in the first place.  I never get closer than 28 degrees apparent under the best conditions)

Title: Re: Hard to fall off in heavy wind
Post by: Ripple on July 16, 2021, 06:31:16 PM
Due to closed borders, we have not sailed for over a year so maybe we have forgotten stuff but it seems that with only a double reefed genoa the boat would naturally want to fall off. It would be more difficult to go through the wind to eventually fall off. If this is true, there must be some mechanical issue. Whatever the case, sailing in the twenties is commendable; we go slow and bumpy in those angles.
Title: Re: Hard to fall off in heavy wind
Post by: Nirvana on July 17, 2021, 01:58:19 PM
We found that a reefed main and less jib give us better control and more stability overall.  On our last boat we used to sail with just the jib fairly often and ended up replacing early.  Halsey-UK (who we purchased those new sails from) advised us to limit using it as the only sail to keep it from being over stressed beyond its design.  Since then we have followed the -reef more with the main- practice.

To help answer your question I have attached the speed curve profile chart for the H46.  As you can see these boats perform best in the 30-35 degree range.  That does not mean you can not sail above 30, just that your not going to get anywhere nearly as efficiently, you may have to tack once more in the end but it will not cost you time on the line overall.

Lastly, on TAZ (our previous boat) I distinctly remember a time we had that experience.  I think with just the Jib out there is no slot for wind to follow between the jib and main so at a high angle in higher winds like that it may be creating a low pressure pocket in the luff.  This would explain the difficulty getting the helm to bring the bow away from the wind.

Just my thoughts
Title: Re: Hard to fall off in heavy wind
Post by: 800lance on July 17, 2021, 04:43:22 PM
I believe Hylas 44 is a Sparks and Stevens design and the Hylas 46 is a German Ferr design sailing characteristics are totally different from each other because the rig and haul designs are different. I find on Shamaya our Hylas 49 witch is a Sparks and Steven design I have to trim the main differently on all points of sale in order to balance her, but once balanced she can really go. To be fair though the Hylas 46 is a faster boat, Man that hurts to say. Shamaya did finish First Place in the 2021 International Banderas Bay Regata " Cruising Class". It was good no Hylas 46' was racing.
Title: Re: Hard to fall off in heavy wind
Post by: Lowelp on July 18, 2021, 04:55:25 PM
Missing information:  what was the boat speed when you experienced this issue?  As high as you were sailing under a reefed headsail I would guess fairly low. Also do you have a large enclosure/ Bimini? At low forward speed any windage behind the center of effort pivot point of the boat will attempt to lever your boat into the wind like a wind vane. Windage in front will try to take you off the wind.  Large amounts of canvas aft of the mast whether a sail or an enclosure will apply force when the wind hits them at an angle. Smaller amounts of canvas in front may not offset that particularly if not sheeted in tightly.   If the boat is going slow the rudder may not develop enough lift to overcome the difference.
Title: Re: Hard to fall off in heavy wind
Post by: NordicSunII on July 19, 2021, 06:45:42 AM
I was doing around 5 knots, and yes I do have a full cockpit enclosure.