Author Topic: What is this mystery block?  (Read 541 times)

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Daniel

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Re: What is this mystery block?
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2017, 08:09:34 PM »
Ken,

different people have different experiences, what else is new in sailing?  :)

I agree with you: the lower the angle of the sheet, the lower the stress on the "bridge" over the openings of the toe rail.

Besides the practical experience, I always like to subject issues like that to sound engineering considerations. When we installed a removable forestay and therefore running backs, we installed 2 appropriately sized stand-up blocks on the aft deck to redirect the running back-stay to the winch. Each stand-up block came with 4x 1/4 SS bolts. Compare that to the, maybe 1/4" aluminum "bridges on the toe rail. Again the angles of the back stays is much more vertical then the angle of a gennerker sheet, but still. Personally I would not take the chance.

As to "where else to attache these blocks", see above: 2 permanently attached stand-up blocks on the aft deck, with an oversized backing plate.

Best



Daniel & Caryn
Former owner H46-11

KSabatini

  • Nirvana - 46 Hull #13
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Re: What is this mystery block?
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2017, 10:15:26 PM »
Thank you for the catch on the brand, It rings a bell and yes, they are excellent, well made blocks.

I don't necessarily disagree re: a boom vang, not sure why one would attach it to the toe rail unless you were running and in such a case the making sure to use sufficient angle (attaching well forward of the mast) to minimize strain.

I do however strongly disagree re: the use of the toe-rail on these boats for this purpose.  We have used these blocks for many years racing our previous boat and very regularly on this boat with light and heavy air, good and bad weather.  Many many sailors I know use the toe rail exclusively for this purpose on many boats.

As always, provided proper maintenance ( of the toe rails and all other proper maintenance is performed as should be) there is more than sufficient load bearing on these toe rails for this duty.

I would however advise that absolute verticle load be avoided where possible.  Strength is maximized at angle as well as load distribution.  We always run our lines on as deep an angle as possible to lessen load on hardware, proper sail trim and minimizing strain on man and machine.   ;D

Lastly this duty is exactly what these blocks are designed for.  I certainly would not think of attaching them anywhere else for such a purpose. 

Of course this is all opinion and conjecture... with quite a lot of experience influencing my blabbering. LOL. ;)

Ken
Ken Sabatini
Hylas 46 ('97)
Purchased June 2016 from Original Owner
She was Nirvana III but since she's our first we felt the name was absolutely appropriate so dropped the III and made her our own.  :)

Daniel

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Re: What is this mystery block?
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2017, 05:14:05 PM »
Based on past experiences on my Hylas 46-11 as well as other Hylas, I would strongly recommend NOT to attached any kind a block to the aluminum toe rail that will have substantial loads, such as downwind sail sheets. I have seen the top of the toe rail bent twice, in fairly benign conditions. They are not designed for such load.

I have also seen owners/skippers attach the boom vang to the toe rail to act as preventer. Really bad idea, if you ever dip the boom into the water, one of 2 things will happen:
- the top of the toe rail will break off (most likely scenario), or
- the boom will break at the connection with the boom vang.

Either case will seriously ruin your afternoon.

Daniel Wolff
Daniel & Caryn
Former owner H46-11

joel

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Re: What is this mystery block?
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2017, 04:48:51 PM »
Those look like older Wilcox Crittenden snatch blocks.  Great blocks! 

Does the toe rail handle the load ok? 

KSabatini

  • Nirvana - 46 Hull #13
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Re: What is this mystery block?
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2017, 01:27:06 PM »
Hi Dave, sorry for the late reply.  I took these images but had to resize them before I could upload.

As you can these have the same jaws as those found on your spinnaker and other halyards, i.e. quick-release, which allow you to lighten the load and the block can be relocated without removing the line.. They also have a very strong spring loaded block release which opens the block itself to allow removing or inserting the line without having to remove the block itself.  This means you can keep the sail powered and move the block then re-insert the line instead of having to run the line.

They are heavy duty and fully hard rubber coated to protect that beautiful paint!   ;D

We have four which give us the entire length of the toe rail to adjust for wind angle.  We use one for the sheets or guys and one for lazy sheets if we need them.  We also use them for turn blocks if the need arises.  They are quite versatile.

We picked these up years ago  at Defender Industries I think and they ran around $125 each if memory serves.

Unfortunately I'm not sure of the brand and it's not branded on the shackles.

Hope this helps.
Ken Sabatini
Hylas 46 ('97)
Purchased June 2016 from Original Owner
She was Nirvana III but since she's our first we felt the name was absolutely appropriate so dropped the III and made her our own.  :)

Dave Brennan

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Re: What is this mystery block?
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2017, 08:26:54 PM »
How do you attach the toe-rail snap-shackles? Do you have another car for the rail?  Please send a picture if possible.

KSabatini

  • Nirvana - 46 Hull #13
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Re: What is this mystery block?
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2017, 01:20:22 PM »
We converted to large toe-rail snap-shackles for the saysil.  Allows considerable mobility depending on wind angle and they're much sturdier than these.
Now I use the original blocks to run my flag halyards securing them to the forward shroud at eye level to snug them up.  A lot overkill but solved the problem of where to put a flag halyard that won't get tied up in the shroud arrangement.

If we ever need a fair lead for spinnaker or staysail beyond the snap-shackles the flag halyards will come of easily with proper tie-ups.
 :)
Ken Sabatini
Hylas 46 ('97)
Purchased June 2016 from Original Owner
She was Nirvana III but since she's our first we felt the name was absolutely appropriate so dropped the III and made her our own.  :)

CabezonBD

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Re: What is this mystery block?
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2017, 05:53:27 PM »
Two comments. 1) We use the mystery blocks for routing the Spinnaker halyard line back to the electric winch for hauling a person up the mast. We have also used it in rigging our Spinnaker Pole for running wing on wing.

2) We also have purchased a second set of blocks for use when we use our stay sail. We do have a stay sail stay on a pelican hook and use it accordingly. When we have used the stay sail, it has worked very well.

Hobiehobie

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Re: What is this mystery block?
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2017, 12:46:40 PM »
Indeed they are staysail blocks.  But you are right, when used, the sheets rub on the coach roof.  As the staysail would most likely be used as heavy weather sail, in my opinion these blocks and the strength of the attachment point seem rather undersized.  Ours already have small surface cracks around the blocks.  Some folks have invested in a second set of cars to go on the forward end of the genoa tracks (about $800) but then the staysail sheeting angle is off for close-hauled.

To me the whole staysail set up is odd, and not very functional.  Given the pain trying to get the genoa around the staysail when tacking, I would prefer to have a removable inner stay that can be deployed for a storm sail with blocks that are big enough and in the right place.  The staysail set up is the only thing I don't like about our Hylas 54!

We are trying to decide how to remedy this.  Anyone have any ideas?




Dave Brennan

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Re: What is this mystery block?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2017, 08:13:06 PM »
Yes, that was one of my guesses. We are cutter-rigged, but have a small block in the main outboard track we use.  Lines could maybe run to from the sail to these blocks, but there is really no way to get to a cockpit winch without running over the deck edges. The dorades / dorade protectors are also in the way for most angles of sail. It could maybe work with a small storm sail.

johnspiegel

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Re: What is this mystery block?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2017, 07:31:59 PM »
I believe that's for the staysail if you're cutter-rigged.

Dave Brennan

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What is this mystery block?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2017, 05:30:40 PM »
Our Hylas 54 has a block on each side of the foredeck, right near the saloon windows. I've never used these and was wondering what they are supposed to be used for.  It's hard to see how a line could be led anywhere useful without rubbing on something.


 

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