Hylas Yacht Owners Association Forum

Open Discussion => Hylas Discussion => Topic started by: Hobiehobie on September 02, 2016, 11:30:31 AM

Title: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: Hobiehobie on September 02, 2016, 11:30:31 AM
The specs for the electric Selden Main furler on my H54 #50 (Genevieve) call for a factory reconditioning after 5 years of use.  Mine is at 9 years and has never been serviced.  This winter season, I intended to remove the furler motor and return it to Selden, but on looking at the mechanism and the complex junction box at the base of the mast, I had no idea how to proceed! so I let it be.  But it is nagging me. I need to do it to make sure we have a rock solid main furling motor.  Can anyone offer practical advice on how to get the mechanism disconnected and removed from the mast?  Or should I get a rigger/electrician to do it?



Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: brian black on September 05, 2016, 01:32:12 PM
since you haven't received any feedback, I'll offer up my 2 cents.  YRMV.  the in-mast furlers, electric and manual, seem to present maintenance challenges.  with the manual units, it is possible to pull out the drive unit and service it in a reasonable way.  you don't have to pull the mast, and some information was available from Selden.  I found very limited information available on the electric drives.  there seem to be many parts that are only available, and perhaps serviceable, from/by Selden.  but further, to service the rest of the in-mast bits, i.e. the foil, bearings, etc.,  I think it's necessary to pull the mast in order to work on 'em.  they seem to be pretty reliable, but I think a thorough check and service is a good idea, before you leave the first world. 
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: Alora on September 06, 2016, 06:34:03 PM
we removed and sent unit to Selden for servicing about six years in.  Really needed it!
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: steve herlong on September 06, 2016, 08:28:48 PM
I have a H49 - 28 (Rise) and have the old style Selden furler mounted outside of the mast.  My unit was likely never sent back for reconditioning either, and I always noticed that furling was difficult.  I even bought a new mainsail but that didn't solve the problem.  Then on a seasonal trip to Bahamas the furler motor froze as I left Charleston Harbor so I was manually furling for 2 months.  So do have those units serviced!

Selden has a facility in my hometown of Charleston but they required that I go thru a local sailmaker or rigger as they would only work directly with a company.   It took two full months to have the unit rebuilt because I had an older style unit - was the reason they gave us.  Hard to believe but true.

It was rather difficult to reinstall the unit so there is likely a good reason they asked to work with a rigger and not with the boat owner directly.

Good luck!  Steve
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: bluepearl on September 07, 2016, 02:30:59 PM
I returned my unit to Selden for servicing after 4 years and it needed it. This is the same unit that Alora commented on two posts ago. This unit will now have been serviced twice since 2006.
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: Moonlight on September 14, 2016, 05:35:18 PM
What does Selden charge for reconditioning a main furler?  I can't imagine there's much in there.  Motor brushes,  bearings or bushings and clean and grease gears. 

Jack Price
Moonlight 49
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: christy on September 14, 2016, 05:44:29 PM
Not sure what they charge for a service but when I bought Christy the main furler motor was not working, checked everything and deduced it was the motor ... Sent back to selden for repair and was advised beyond repair .. New motor was £ 6,500.00 (USD $ 10,000.00) for a new motor .. Ouch !

Will be getting the new motor serviced when recommended ...

Tony
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: steve herlong on September 14, 2016, 08:06:07 PM
My invoice for a total and complete rebuild of my older style unit cost me $3,200.
Steve
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: Moonlight on September 15, 2016, 03:37:46 PM
Wow!  I guess I better take care of that motor.  I have the old style also and don't know if it's ever been in for servicing.  I might have to take a peek inside before I send it. 

Jack
Moonlight
49 #31
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: FORTESEA on February 08, 2019, 09:38:55 PM
I have Selden Mainsail furler motor for sale.
This motor is from Hylas46  and was use in Lake Michigan for 3 Seasons ( total 18 months) was brand new in 2001.
In 2003 I lost the mast and the new mast came with the motor  inside.
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: Caregg on February 12, 2019, 01:40:26 AM
A few years ago I had the main in the mast electrical sail furler on my year 2000 Hylas 46 #31 serviced with a new motor (Selden, 532-422 Electric Motor 12V $940.80); new belt; repainted; cleaned and lubricated for a total of $1914.42 by M Yachts Services in Annapolis, MD.  The mast was not removed in the process.  I'm pretty sure I saw something on the web somewhere that talked about how to remove the furler without removing the mast.

The work was done over the winter when the boat was stored a Bert Jabin's yard.  Miles Poor of MRP Yacht Management services organized and oversaw the process when I was on the west coast. 
The problem I was having was that every so often the furler would stop working.  If I manually turned it a bit it would work again for a while.  Since then I have not had any problems.  I've even furled a couple of times in winds over 45 knots.  If I thought I'd have a chance to go cruising I'd buy the Fortesea furler for a spare.
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: tulsag on February 12, 2019, 03:18:51 AM
Crossing the Atlantic from Bermuda to the Azores in 2014 in our Hylas '54 the in-mast furler started working intermittently and then it failed completely 10 days later after lots of use.  The tech in the Azores removed the motor in about an hour.  On the deck, he opened the motor housing and we could clearly see 2 of the 3 'brushes' (magnets) were in chunks and disintegrating into powder.  Being in the Azores, we could not wait for new magnets so he cut new ones to match the existing one and installed them in the motor that day.  Motor was STRONGER THAN EVER instantly.  It's been 5 years and the simple fix is still working like new.  I contacted Selden about buying a set of spare magnets but they said they only do complete refits (see others comments about the cost of that option) and don't sell 'brushes' alone.  Replacing the magnets in the Azores cost approximately $400.  I'd try that if your in-mast furler is acting up.

Mark Powell
s/v TARA
Hylas '54
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: jt11791 on May 16, 2019, 09:20:50 PM
I just rebuilt the mainsail furler gearbox on my 54.  The shaft seals had failed allowing water intrusion and bearing destruction.   I removed the gearbox with electric motor from the mast and completely disassembled it at home.  New tapered roller bearing and shaft seals went in and now it is all back together.  Total cost was about $150 for the parts, which are widely available standard industrial parts.  All you  need is the part number or sizes which are:

Timken (or cheaper knockoffs) Tapered roller bearings #32007X  (four required)
Shaft oil seals 32mm x 47mm x 7mm  (three required)

It's not a difficult job if you are mechanically inclined.  Please feel free to contact me if you need more details on the procedure.
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: Windswept on May 18, 2019, 04:03:36 AM
Nice job and info jt....I see this project in my future. Q. Was removing the unit off the mast difficult? Also, did you install new brushes in the motor? Thanks Don/Windswept 46 #028
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: jt11791 on May 18, 2019, 05:27:55 AM
My unit came off the mast easily because whoever installed it used lots of Tef Gel (thank God!).

To remove the gearbox from the mast:
1) Remove the four cap screws from the port side of the gearbox and pull the side cover with the electric motor out being careful not to lose the spring and shaft key that will come out with the drive shaft.
2) Disconnect the DC leads from the motor and set the cover/motor aside.
3) The gearbox is held to the mast with four torx head bolts.  These have captive nuts behind them, so don't worry about dropping the nuts down inside the mast, they will stay put. 
4) With the torx bolts removed, the gearbox will come free from the mast enough to allow you to disconnect the electric cable conduit.  Disconnect the conduit and pull the cables from the gearbox.
5) There is a universal on top of the gearbox which drives the luff foil via a short section of foil.  These pieces all just slide together, so once the  electric cable and conduit are removed, the gearbox should slide free.  The universal will come with the gearbox, along with the short foil section, which is loose so don't drop it.  The luff foil will stay in the mast.

I did check the brushes in my electric motor and found they were fine, nothing needed there.  The furler motor doesn't run for long periods of time, so the brushes are likely to last a very long time.

Symptoms that caused me to open this can of worms:
Brown goo (water? grease? oil?) leaking from where the handle to furl manually attaches.
Stickiness and occasional jams that required manual cranking to clear.
Loud sounds from what I now know to be failed bearings.

When I first tested my rebuilt gearbox I thought it wasn't working because it was so quiet!  From the time I purchased the boat the furler had always been loud.  I thought that was normal, what did I know?  Now it's silent.   ;D
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: Windswept on May 23, 2019, 03:21:58 AM
Very nice JT.... great detailed write up! Looks by your description...not so difficult which is a good thing. Certainly on my to do list. One thing #5 You mention....(the short section of foil) I am wondering if this is (which I will have to go back and find within this forum) the section, that is the weak link.... and inturn should be carring a spare if circumnavigating?

Your descripton... Brown goo (water? grease? oil?) leaking from where the handle to furl manually attaches. Is exactly what is happening here....but, no bearing issue. Needless to say, once I crack this project (prolly late summer) I will change out the bearings as well.

Q. At the crank handle, insert point.... is this a seal? If so, where did you get it? Thanks Don
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: jt11791 on May 25, 2019, 10:04:20 PM
The oil seals fit around the outside of the shaft.  The central part of the shaft with the 8 point star for the winch handle does not have a seal.

Here's a link to the seal that I bought:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C29YQWD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

If you open up your gearbox and find the bearings aren't damaged, I wouldn't replace them, just re-pack with grease.  They'll last forever if the sea doesn't get to them.

The short section of tube (foil) that connects the gearbox to the luff foil looks so substantial to me that I can't imagine it ever breaking.  I suspect that the post here about one breaking was a different furler than what I have.  I'd carry a spare electric motor or another fifth of rum before bothering with a spare for mine.
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: RobS on May 30, 2019, 01:59:10 AM
A little bit of practical advice about that shaft:  When I bought our Hylas 49 I was advised to keep the end of that shaft, where the winch handle fits in, covered all the time with rigger's tape.  You can always peel that off if you need to use the winch handle, but otherwise a bit of tape is very handy to keep the sea water out of the bearings.
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: svphoenixdawn on June 20, 2019, 05:47:06 AM
What’s the recommended service frequency? Are there any “usual” symptoms indicating servicing? Less furl power, etc Thx! H-46/58
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: Ripple on June 20, 2019, 01:15:01 PM
Without having the manual in front of me, I recall a recommended service interval of 5 years. When we bought Capers, the boat was 11 years old and the drive did not run smoothly. Upon inspection, the bearings were in corroded pieces and looked like they had been buried in dirt for a century. So I’d say that 11 years is too long to go without servicing.

Jim, h46-53
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: Hermitage on October 12, 2020, 10:43:55 PM
I am looking to do this service as well as we have grease coming out around where the winch handle fitting goes in.

Is it possible and recommended to change the grease seal without removing the gearbox from the mast? Is it a one or two person job?
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: jt11791 on October 12, 2020, 11:04:32 PM
It might be possible to change the horizontal shaft seal with the gearbox in place, but I don't recommend trying.  The box is not hard to remove (I managed by myself) and working on it will be much easier off the mast.  The seal is inserted from the inside, so you will need to remove the horizontal shaft/worm gear.  While you have the box off, replace the seal on the vertical shaft as well.  It's this seal that lets water in when it fails, so might as well replace it.

Good luck!

Jeff Taylor
S/V Renegade
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: Hermitage on October 13, 2020, 06:32:09 AM
Thanks JT for your advice.

One more question in preparation, did you regrease it with normal winch grease?
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: jt11791 on October 13, 2020, 11:09:00 PM
Not winch grease, no, I used waterproof axle bearing grease commonly used on boat trailer wheels.  You want a heavy, sticky grease that will stay on the bearings and gears.  The bearings should be packed using a packing tool to completely fill them with grease, again just like a wheel bearing.

-Jeff
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: tday01 on October 15, 2020, 03:06:25 PM
I did this service earlier this year with some help from Jeff. It was relatively straightforward. I also got the casing powder-coated while it was apart.

I would definitely remove the gearbox to replace any bearings or seals. There were was one race that wouldn't come out even after putting it in the oven, and one bearing that wouldn't come off the shaft. I took it to a local machine shop. He removed the race by "tickling" it with an arc welder. He removed the bearing with a cold chisel and hammer(which wouldn't have had the nerve to to). Paid him a six-pack. After that, it was very straightforward. The parts are so inexpensive I replaced all bar one bearing.

DM if you have any questions.

Tony
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: RH2 on October 17, 2020, 01:18:49 PM
Hi,
I did mine as well. Quite painless. There was one bearing i could not get to, and in reality only the seals had failed so I replaced all the seals, all but one bearing, the spring on the motor shaft and repacked the whole mechanism with grease.

Some big hex keys were about the only tool. Make sure you mark the motor cables. Mine were reversed and doing the service let me put them the right way.

I took a bunch of photos i am happy to share if people need then.

Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: RH2 on October 21, 2020, 03:55:21 AM
Hi,

I had a couple of requests for photos so I have added a bit of commentary to hopefully assist.
Also correction, allen keys are required, not hex keys

Regards

Guy
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: derek on October 21, 2020, 05:20:18 AM
Many thanks Guy that was very informative
Derek
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: Windswept on October 21, 2020, 05:27:28 AM
Thumbs up Guy.... needless to say, pic is worth a thousand words!  ;)

Best
Don
Windswept #028
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: Hermitage on October 21, 2020, 06:41:03 AM
Wow. Fantastic. Thank you for sharing Guy.
Title: Re: Selden Mainsail furler servicing
Post by: Sailsteady on October 22, 2020, 05:35:30 PM
Great discussion and something that has been on my to-do list since purchasing Nepenthe back in 2018.  She's a 1997 H46 (#16) and has the age-appropriate model of Selden electric mainsail furler.  I've attached a few pics for reference.  I actually started to try and remove the box at one point but then stopped myself short figuring that I may want to do a little research first!  ha.  I did attempt to add some grease using the zerk fitting on the outside, however, most of that quickly leaked out as brown goop around the winch handle fitting.  That seems to be common from what I'm reading, especially if the seals are shot.

I've got most of November to tackle this project and would love to hear from anyone who has serviced this exact model.  Any particular notes about removing it from the mast etc would be most helpful.

As always, thanks in advance for any assistance!

Best,

Dan
SV Nepenthe
1997 H46 #16